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Traveller-digest     Tuesday, November 30 1999     Volume 1999 : Number 1417<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: early christian writings and roman rumors<BR>
Re: LEO's<BR>
Re: Police ranks<BR>
Re: Police ranks<BR>
Re: Police ranks<BR>
Re: Police ranks<BR>
Re: Low TL Medicines (was: Re: Rule of man coin)<BR>
Re: Police Ranks<BR>
Re: Police Career<BR>
Re Lounge Ship Enterprise<BR>
SEC: UNCLASSIFIED OT Oh bold Leonard (was Re: Sci fi films)<BR>
Re: Contacting Roger Sanger<BR>
Re: Low TL Medicines...<BR>
Sheriff/Law Officers<BR>
Re: Iridium-class Solar Yacht (GTL12)<BR>
Re: early christian writings and roman rumors<BR>
Re: Bifrost-class Solar Shuttle (GTL9)<BR>
Bifrost-class Solar Shuttle (GTL9) - corrected<BR>
Goryo-class Medium Fighter (GTL9) - corrected<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 11:59:54 +1100<BR>
From: David Healey <dhealey@giant.net.au><BR>
Subject: Re: early christian writings and roman rumors<BR>
<BR>
On 29/11/99, Colin Michael wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>From: Robert Prior <robert_prior@sympatico.ca><BR>
>> May I recommend "The Unauthorized Version" by Robin Lane Fox?  A look at<BR>
>> the bible as history, by a good historian.<BR>
><BR>
>Or "Surspised By Joy", by C.S. Lewis, a Sci-Fi writer and infamous atheist.<BR>
><BR>
>- -Crusty<BR>
<BR>
One assumes you mean Wyndham Lewis, rather than the infamous Christian C.S.<BR>
Lewis ?  The series of "The Lion, et al", is considered by some to be an<BR>
easy-read Bible.<BR>
<BR>
Dave<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 12:01:05 +1100<BR>
From: David Healey <dhealey@giant.net.au><BR>
Subject: Re: LEO's<BR>
<BR>
On 29/11/99, William Hostman said :<BR>
<BR>
>Let us look at a typical american "big city", Detroit, Michigan. Detroit<BR>
>really is a collage of small cities (typically under 64mi^2). The detroit<BR>
>metorplex straddles 3 counties (Wayne, Macomb, and Oakland), with the City<BR>
>of Detroit (proper) being in Wayne County. You have the Detroit Metro PD,<BR>
>the Wayne County Sherrif's Department, the Macomb County Sheriff's<BR>
>Department, and the Oakland County Sheriff's Department. In wayne county<BR>
>alone, you also have the following other police departments: Trenton PD,<BR>
>Wyandotte PD, Allen Park PD, Licoln Park PD, Taylor PD, Garden City PD,<BR>
>Dearborne PD, and Livonia PD (I've seen cars from these in wyandotte; there<BR>
>was a Police Officer's funeral a day after my grandfather's funeral), plus<BR>
>possibly 5 more PD's. Each county has a number of townships and<BR>
>incorporated cities in it, and all of them fall under the Metro PD's<BR>
>jurisdiction, as well. The sheriff's are elected by their county, the Metro<BR>
>PD Chief is appointed, but I don't know how. I do know the city manager of<BR>
>Wyandotte appoints the Wyandotte PD's chief. I also know that on a robbery<BR>
>call, DMPD, WPD, and the WCSD all responded, as did a Trenton PD officer<BR>
>(The named suspect was from trenton, which was 2 miles down the road.)<BR>
><BR>
>In almost all cases, for state crimes, the State Police or State Troopers<BR>
>can get involved. Also, most state trooper agencies are specifically<BR>
>charged with highway patrol duties. (California also has a separate highway<BR>
>patrol, if I understand california correctly).<BR>
<BR>
Strewth !  Does this lead to the odd discussion over jurisdiction ?  If you<BR>
include only "traditional" Police Agencies here, we have one per State and<BR>
the Federal Police, plus a few other agencies who don't have "Powers<BR>
Constable".  Nice 'n simple.<BR>
<BR>
Is it possible for list-members from other countries to give a basic run<BR>
down of their police agencies for people to use in their TU's ?<BR>
<BR>
And before any other Australian pipes up, yes I know there're other<BR>
agencies out there.  They don't, however, carry firearms, nor do they have<BR>
the arrest powers the traditional police forces have.<BR>
<BR>
Dave<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 20:13:56 -0500<BR>
From: Jeff Zeitlin <jzeitlin@cyburban.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Police ranks<BR>
<BR>
On Mon, 29 Nov 1999 21:29:08 -0500 (EST),<BR>
david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>For a different take on the Police, see my version of Police for MegaTraveller.<BR>
<BR>
>Go to my website, then ==> Tavonni Repair Bays ==> Police Characters for<BR>
>MegaTraveller.<BR>
<BR>
>This is actually based on the UK model portrayed in "The Bill". For those who<BR>
>want a US-based version, use Jeff's ranks. For example, there is no "Lieutenant"<BR>
>or "Captain" in the UK system, and the US uses "Chief of Police" rather than<BR>
>"Commissioner of Police", since there is no monarch to receive a commission<BR>
>from.<BR>
<BR>
Actually, some US jurisdictions use Commissioner _also_, as a<BR>
_civilian_ political appointee who sets overall policy for the<BR>
department.  The Chief of Department is in _operational_ control<BR>
of implementation.  NYC is one such; all appointments to rank<BR>
above Captain are made by the Commissioner.<BR>
<BR>
Just out of curiosity, what _are_ the titles in the British<BR>
system?<BR>
<BR>
>Naturally, since local law enforcement _by definition_ is local, there is no<BR>
>problem for one world using the US notation, another using the UK notation,<BR>
>another using something completely different (eg. "commisars" or whatever). You<BR>
>can even split the ranks more, and have a "Customs Branch" ranking system with<BR>
>various "Customs Officers", or a "Riot Brigade" that uses a more military<BR>
>ranking system (good ideas for a big force on a Hi Pop Hi Law world). Jeff's<BR>
>original article in 1995 even skipped ranks if the force was small.<BR>
<BR>
Cheez, is that moldy old thing still around?  If you can lay<BR>
hands on it, do me a favor and forward me a copy - I want to see<BR>
how far off my perceptions were; that was fairly early in my<BR>
career as a civilian computer geek with the NYPD...<BR>
<BR>
>The point about planetary police is that they ARE different. With subsector<BR>
>police, I cheated a little to reduce the number of ranks. You can expand them<BR>
>again to allow detectives at the subsector level, if you want. After all, It's<BR>
>Your Traveller Universe.<BR>
<BR>
Oh, definitely; I sort of assumed this.  Necessarily, though, I<BR>
was writing from personal experience.<BR>
<BR>
>Oh, and the query about "officer" and "enlisted" is a hard one. After all, every<BR>
>policeman is a "police officer". Therefore, I use the terms "officer" and<BR>
>"commissioned officer", which at first glance seems a tautology, but remember<BR>
>that the military has "non-commissioned officers" as well.<BR>
<BR>
>Planetary Police                            Subsector Police<BR>
>Rank Officer                                Rank Officer<BR>
>E1   Probationer                            E1   Trainee<BR>
>E2   Constable/Detective Constable          E2   Constable<BR>
>E3   Senior Constable/Snr Det Constable     E3   Senior Constable<BR>
>E4   Sergeant/Detective Sergeant            E4   Sergeant<BR>
>E5   Senior Sergeant/Snr Det Sergeant       E5   Senior Sergeant<BR>
>E6   Station Sergeant/Station Det Sergeant  E6   Station Sergeant<BR>
>E7   Area Sergeant/Area Det Sergeant        E7   Area Sergeant<BR>
><BR>
>Rank Commissioned Officer                   Rank Commissioned Officer<BR>
>O1   Deputy Inspector/Deputy Det Inspector  O1   Deputy Inspector<BR>
>O2   Inspector/Detective Inspector          O2   Inspector<BR>
>O3   Chief Inspector/Chief Det Inspector    O3   Chief Inspector<BR>
>O4   Superintendent                         O4   Station Chief<BR>
>O5   Chief Superintendent                   O5   Area Chief<BR>
>O6   Deputy Commissioner                    O6   Bureau Chief<BR>
>O7   Commissioner of Police                 O7   Subsector Chief<BR>
<BR>
Does this represent the British system, or is it a modification<BR>
thereof similar to mine of the US system for the purpose of the<BR>
Article That Started This Thread?<BR>
<BR>
>BTW, one of my sources was "Law Enforcer Characters", a TML article by none<BR>
>other than Jeff Zeitlin back in 1995. To be fair, I used it as a reality check<BR>
>on the skills I was giving out, rather than for the ranks. Also, I don't really<BR>
>know if the UK has a "Station Sergeant" and "Area Sergeant" or whether some<BR>
>sergeants are just more senior than others (eg. Bob from "The Bill"). However,<BR>
>they seemed convenient titles to allow me to create the E6 and E7 ranks.<BR>
<BR>
Like I said, "Cheez, is that moldy old thing still around?  If<BR>
you can lay hands on it, do me a favor and forward me a copy - I<BR>
want to see how far off my perceptions were; that was fairly<BR>
early in my career as a civilian computer geek with the NYPD..."<BR>
<BR>
IIRC, that was also a TNE-centric article, no?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Jeff Zeitlin<BR>
jzeitlin@cyburban.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 20:13:53 -0500<BR>
From: Jeff Zeitlin <jzeitlin@cyburban.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Police ranks<BR>
<BR>
On Mon, 29 Nov 1999 21:29:08 -0500 (EST), "Thomas Vickers"<BR>
<redroach@flex.net> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>>OTOH, Los Angeles County has a very large Sheriffs department, which<BR>
>>handles the entire range of police duties, from parking violations to<BR>
>>homicide investigations. They cover the vast areas of the Los Angeles<BR>
>>Metro area that isn't _in_ Los Angeles proper, though you couldn't<BR>
>>easily tell it on the ground.<BR>
<BR>
>Same here in Texas. The City PD is responsible for about 40 K folks, while<BR>
>the Sheriff has to cover the entire county and the other 300K folks.<BR>
<BR>
>The Constables tend to handle a lot of the civil stuff you mentioned. I<BR>
>think each county has several constable districts and they even get neato<BR>
>cars too :)<BR>
<BR>
Point taken, from both of you.  In that case, it's pretty clear<BR>
that the "Sheriff's Department" is really the Police Department<BR>
with a "funny" name and rank titles.  There will, logically, be a<BR>
one-to-one mapping in there somewhere, and I would expect a "real<BR>
cop" (i.e., one from a PD that calls itself "Police") to feel<BR>
right at home, no real difference.  Note that what I described is<BR>
not just NYC and Metro; it's statewide, as we have a New York<BR>
State Police Department that handles law enforcement<BR>
responsibilities for municipalities that do not have their own<BR>
department.  In the past two years, the Town of Putnam Valley and<BR>
the Town of Cortlandt Manor have abolished their police<BR>
departments as more of a financial drain than a help; police<BR>
services are now provided by the NYSPD.  But the Sheriffs for<BR>
Putnam County and Westchester County, respectively, handle the<BR>
kinds of civil enforcement I've described.  True, both are<BR>
technically in NYC Metro, but I know some folks in the Finger<BR>
Lakes region that say it's the same way up there.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Jeff Zeitlin<BR>
jzeitlin@cyburban.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 20:13:59 -0500<BR>
From: Jeff Zeitlin <jzeitlin@cyburban.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Police ranks<BR>
<BR>
On Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:42:41 -0500 (EST), "Chris Seamans"<BR>
<semo@pil.net> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>
<BR>
>>or "Captain" in the UK system, and the US uses "Chief of Police" rather than<BR>
>>"Commissioner of Police", since there is no monarch to receive a commission<BR>
>>from.<BR>
<BR>
>Ah, so that's where it comes from!<BR>
<BR>
>Anyhow, we *do* have Commissioners here in America. In Gotham City there's<BR>
>Commissioner Gordon (he should be hitting retirement any day now). There was<BR>
>also a short-lived TV series on one of the major networks called "The<BR>
>Commish", which concerned itself with the exploits of a pleasant, lovable<BR>
>and awfully *round* Police Commissioner. I think that Philadelphia has a<BR>
>Commissioner, but now that I think of it, I'm not all that sure.<BR>
<BR>
FWIW, "Gotham" was a fictionalized NYC, which does indeed have a<BR>
Commissioner - Currently, one Howard Safir; previously, William<BR>
J. Bratton (yes, the one that made the news).<BR>
<BR>
In addition to NYC, Boston is known to have a Commissioner;<BR>
Bratton was Commish there before coming (back) to NYC to take it<BR>
here; and Philadephia does indeed have a Commissioner as well,<BR>
currently one John Timoney, former Chief of Department, NYPD.  I<BR>
believe Chicago does, as well.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Jeff Zeitlin<BR>
jzeitlin@cyburban.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 20:14:03 -0500<BR>
From: Jeff Zeitlin <jzeitlin@cyburban.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Police ranks<BR>
<BR>
On Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:42:41 -0500 (EST), Glenn Goffin<BR>
<gmgoffin@yahoo.com> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Before we get too far into Yanks-and-Brits in Space,<BR>
>let's remember that law enforcement can occur under a<BR>
>large variety of paradigms.  In rural areas today, for<BR>
>example, law enforcement may be in the hands of a<BR>
>locally-based person or organization (sheriff,<BR>
>headman, constable), or of a representative of the<BR>
>central government (like a U.S. Marshall), or of the<BR>
>military, or of paramilitary organizations (and not<BR>
>just death squads).  To what extent can character<BR>
>generation give different flavors to these<BR>
>experiences?<BR>
<BR>
Good point. There's also the police force of a functional<BR>
anarchy: The Free People's Vigilance Committee of East Backwash.<BR>
One can definitely have fun with different models of law<BR>
enforcement; the question to ask is "what's going to best further<BR>
the adventure?". :)<BR>
<BR>
I'd suggest that proper tuning of the skills available and the<BR>
likelihood of getting them, plus the types and descriptions of<BR>
the assignments, can flavor the chargen for any particular need.<BR>
Remember, for example, that LBB Book 4 handled both Army and<BR>
Marines, and even though there was a lot of overlap (hence<BR>
handling them in a single book), they had distinct flavors.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Jeff Zeitlin<BR>
jzeitlin@cyburban.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 20:14:09 -0500<BR>
From: Jeff Zeitlin <jzeitlin@cyburban.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Low TL Medicines (was: Re: Rule of man coin)<BR>
<BR>
On Tue, 30 Nov 1999 09:48:31 -0500 (EST), "Chris Seamans"<BR>
<semo@pil.net> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
<BR>
>>The question then become:<BR>
<BR>
>>To what extent (if any) does the Imperium regulate the interstellar<BR>
>>transport of medicinal compounds between worlds, if said compounds are<BR>
>>legal on the world of origin?  If there is no formal Imperial regulation<BR>
>>of such compounds, does the Imperium at least attempt to help worlds<BR>
>>maintain their own regulations on importation of medicinal compounds?<BR>
<BR>
>I would suspect that the Imperium might have to involve itself in this sort<BR>
>of scenario. Introduction of addictive drugs into a society can have grave<BR>
>economic consequences. Even the distant Imperium doesn't want an industrial<BR>
>world to be turned into a crack den. Historically, this tactic was used<BR>
>deliberately by the British during the Opium Wars. On a smaller scale, the<BR>
>introduction of alcohol to the American Indians was devastating.<BR>
<BR>
I'd tend to play it in the other direction - the Imperium will<BR>
not get involved in what is clearly a matter of local law<BR>
enforcement, unless they are specifically asked to be involved,<BR>
and even then, there will be limits to the assistance they will<BR>
provide, and often a cost to the requesting world.<BR>
- --<BR>
Jeff Zeitlin<BR>
jzeitlin@cyburban.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 20:14:07 -0500<BR>
From: Jeff Zeitlin <jzeitlin@cyburban.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Police Ranks<BR>
<BR>
On Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:42:41 -0500 (EST), Russell Bornschlegel<BR>
<kaleja@estarcion.com> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au wrote:<BR>
>> For a different take on the Police, see my version of Police for MegaTraveller.<BR>
 <BR>
>> Go to my website, then ==> Tavonni Repair Bays ==> Police Characters for<BR>
>> MegaTraveller.<BR>
<BR>
>Oh, damn it all. I'm trying to get my article locked down so Jeff <BR>
>can put it on Freelance Traveller, and here you go stirring up <BR>
>my brain. Thanks. :) <BR>
<BR>
>> BTW, one of my sources was "Law Enforcer Characters", a TML article by none<BR>
>> other than Jeff Zeitlin back in 1995.<BR>
<BR>
>Jeff, you've been holding out on me. Is this available online?<BR>
<BR>
<grin> Like I said, "Cheez, is that moldy old thing still around?<BR>
If you can lay hands on it, do me a favor and forward me a copy -<BR>
I want to see how far off my perceptions were; that was fairly<BR>
early in my career as a civilian computer geek with the NYPD..."<BR>
- --<BR>
Jeff Zeitlin<BR>
jzeitlin@cyburban.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 20:14:11 -0500<BR>
From: Jeff Zeitlin <jzeitlin@cyburban.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Police Career<BR>
<BR>
On Tue, 30 Nov 1999 15:12:21 -0500 (EST), Alex Ingram<BR>
<ingram@airmail.net> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>I really liked what you have proposed and find several new ideals which I<BR>
>may integrate into MTU. I've also been working on a Police career system<BR>
>for several years.<BR>
<BR>
>Here are some of my ideals:<BR>
<BR>
>There are local (planetary) and Imperial police within my game. I am<BR>
>dealing here with the Imperial Police Force (IMPOL). It is a comprehensive<BR>
>organization with many responsibilities.<BR>
<BR>
>I see the Imperial Police operating only on Imperial worlds and starports<BR>
>and not just any planet. IMPOL functions like a national police force. I have<BR>
>studied many different law enforcement organizations: the FBI, Interpol,<BR>
>ATF, DEA, Secret Service, Bureau of Prisons, NYPD, LAPD and Scotland Yards<BR>
>and have added many of their duties and roles to my system:<BR>
<BR>
>Imperial Police Force<BR>
<BR>
>Enforcement Branch - Uniformed patrol officers<BR>
><BR>
>     Enforcement (Traffic and Foot Patrol / Police Storefront Operations)<BR>
>     Bomb Squad (Bomb & Explosive Ordnance Disposal)<BR>
<BR>
Munitions and Special Package Division.  Also responsible for<BR>
non-explosive devices of mass effect (e.g., poison gas emitters).<BR>
<BR>
>     Hostage Rescue & Negotiation (Special Weapons & Tactics Teams / Hostage Negotiators)<BR>
>     Animal Teams (Formerly K-9) (there may be other types of animals used in police work)<BR>
<BR>
I'd probably make this one 'Non-sentient Assistance Division';<BR>
that would also cover robot handlers and motile vegetation that<BR>
perhaps can be found. In many Terran-based traditions, this will<BR>
probably still be called 'K-9'.<BR>
<BR>
>     Air Patrol (may include a Parachute Wilderness Rescue & Recovery Team)<BR>
>     Harbor Patrol (may include a Water Rescue & Recovery Team / Scuba Team)<BR>
<BR>
NYC combines these into "Harbor and Aviation"; you might want to<BR>
consider "Special Environment Division", dealing with<BR>
environments not 'standard' for a society - for example, a belt<BR>
society might need a 'Space' or 'Zero-Gee' R&R unit, but won't<BR>
need a 'Harbor' unit.<BR>
<BR>
I think you should expand on this, into another article like<BR>
what's asserted to be mine from '95, or The Article That Started<BR>
This Thread.  Enough different takes on this one concept, and we<BR>
may be able to do 'Classic Traveller Book 9 - Police'.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Jeff Zeitlin<BR>
jzeitlin@cyburban.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 17:37:41 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re Lounge Ship Enterprise<BR>
<BR>
>ObTrav:  The Scout Service functions via peer review, and it (like all<BR>
>systems) has a potential for abuse. How many Scout ships/teams are turning<BR>
>a blind eye to the abuses of their fellow Scouts so that those others will<BR>
>turn a blind eye to their own abuses?  Beyond the ISS Lounge Ship<BR>
>Enterprise, what about more serious violations?  What if other scouts (the<BR>
>PCs) stumble on a group that is involved in grey market smuggling and<BR>
>discover that they can profit if they don't report them to their<BR>
>superiors?  What if they discover that those superiors are the ones<BR>
>organizing the smuggling ring?<BR>
<BR>
IMTU, the scout service itself turns an institutional blind eye towards<BR>
small scale trafficing in recreational materials, provided the work gets<BR>
done, done right, done on time and no-one gets caught or complains.<BR>
<BR>
Then again, IMTU, scout brew also requires certain chemicals barred by the<BR>
psionic suppressions....<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click<BR>
interface!"<BR>
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-<BR>
533<BR>
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com<BR>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis	ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+<BR>
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls<BR>
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 13:20:34 +1100 <BR>
From: "Hughes, Michael" <Michael.Hughes@cbr.defence.gov.au><BR>
Subject: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED OT Oh bold Leonard (was Re: Sci fi films)<BR>
<BR>
I'm always interested what words will get emphasized in TML posts,<BR>
especially those from those that love to bold. <BR>
<BR>
Taking a recent post regarding Sci Fi films and their hygiene content, I<BR>
believe that upon condensing the bold words in the post, Leonard (a most<BR>
frequent bolder :-)) is trying to tell us something via employing a bit of<BR>
'Yoda patois' action. <BR>
<BR>
*locally* *and* *grunge* *want* *neat* *kill* *they* *Any* *need* *long*<BR>
*can't* *enforced* *other* *really* *important*  *required* *anything*<BR>
*very* *careful* *themselves* *most* *don't* *any* *real* *real* *really*<BR>
*need* *is* *do*.<BR>
<BR>
Red *Bomb* Rum! *Pearl* Red *Harbour* Rum!<BR>
<BR>
Ob Traveller; Nah, can't think of one.<BR>
<BR>
PS Said post was very informative and has joined my fine collection of RL Vs<BR>
Sci-fi File.<BR>
PPS No flames please, I'm British<BR>
<BR>
Michael <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 19:07:25 -0800<BR>
From: Edward Swatschek <traveller@bitslayer.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Contacting Roger Sanger<BR>
<BR>
On Sat, 27 Nov 1999, Josh W. Spencer wrote:<BR>
> OK, I'm not trying to open up a can of worms, but nevertheless, I'd like<BR>
> to contact this person and hear it from the horse's own mouth about the<BR>
> dispute between Marc Miller and the current owner of the DGP properties.<BR>
> <BR>
> Does anyone on the TML know how I can contact him?<BR>
<BR>
From the whois database entry for digestgroup.com:<BR>
<BR>
   Digest Group Publications<BR>
   P.O. Box 75472<BR>
   Seattle, WA  98125<BR>
   <BR>
   Roger Sanger, 206-363-1094, rodge@halcyon.com<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Edward Swatschek - edjs@bitslayer.net<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 13:44:48 +1000<BR>
From: "The Roc" <roc@kewl.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Low TL Medicines...<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca><BR>
To: <traveller@mpgn.com><BR>
Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 1999 4:52 AM<BR>
Subject: RE: Low TL Medicines<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
> Your reasoning works for explaining why some drugs may be<BR>
> illegal on some worlds and not others, but I can't see the<BR>
> Imperium being interested.  IMTU, even Psi drugs are not<BR>
> explicitly banned by the Imperium, though any significant<BR>
> trade in these drugs is likely to attract attention.<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
I understand what you mean, and I was generalising, reading the question on<BR>
a more "world specific" Imperium, not as the Imperium per se.  My ideas go<BR>
from system to system, even from specific worlds to specific worlds.<BR>
<BR>
However, using the Psi example, I figure that if psionics is illegal<BR>
Imperium-wide, and Psi-drugs are illegal within the Imperium, then the mere<BR>
possession of said illegal drugs is an offence and punishable if caught...<BR>
but that is just "my" take on it and everyone else is free to think<BR>
otherwise.  I can't see any kind of "positive" control of psionics if you<BR>
can possess the drugs anywhere other than on actual worlds unless psionics<BR>
do not exist in space travel where the drugs would then be useless?<BR>
<BR>
- -- The Roc<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 23:04:10 -0500<BR>
From: "Lyle Youngblood" <lyley@gte.net><BR>
Subject: Sheriff/Law Officers<BR>
<BR>
>The sheriff is an elected position, typically the highest in a county (or<BR>
>parish). Small sheriff departments have several deputies who may or may not<BR>
>be civil servants. Large sheriff departments, (in Chicago, for example)<BR>
>provide court bailiffs, serve court papers, and staff  jails. Large<BR>
>departments have deputy ranks  like chief deputy, lieutenant deputy,<BR>
>sergeant deputy, etc., sometimes including investigators.<BR>
    The organization of the sheriff's department is almost always a choice<BR>
made by the elected sheriff and the local county commisioners.  In areas<BR>
such as New York, Chicago, and L.A., they tend to be police support<BR>
organizations as mentioned elsewhere in this thread.  In largely rural<BR>
areas, the sheriff's department will be the main police force in the<BR>
county and the constables, marshalls, and police of the towns will<BR>
usually defer to them.  It's still not an uncommon practice for a sheriff to<BR>
deputize a town marshall or constable or for a small community to<BR>
ask the county sheriff to station a deputy semi-permanently in the<BR>
town, thereby directly and formally subordinating local law enforcement<BR>
to the county.  Many large countys with full civil service-style sheriff's<BR>
departments will also include detectives, investigators, and specialist<BR>
forensic experts who are not in any way considered deputies, although<BR>
they are subordinate to the elected sheriff (or sometimes the county<BR>
coroner).<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>
>This is actually based on the UK model portrayed in "The Bill". For those<BR>
who<BR>
>want a US-based version, use Jeff's ranks. For example, there is no<BR>
"Lieutenant"<BR>
>or "Captain" in the UK system, and the US uses "Chief of Police" rather<BR>
than<BR>
>"Commissioner of Police", since there is no monarch to receive a commission<BR>
>from.<BR>
    Actually, U.S. citys sometimes have a Police Comissioner as well,<BR>
although<BR>
it is a completely different concept from the Police Chief.  A Chief is<BR>
usually<BR>
a political appointment (although, rarely, it may be a civil service<BR>
position)<BR>
but is usually, if not almost always, a career police officer who has worked<BR>
his way up the system to Captain's rank or above.  He handles implementation<BR>
of policy and standards and is analagous to a U.S. military Chief of Staff.<BR>
A Commissioner, either individually or as a member of a Police<BR>
Commission, is always a political appointment and almost never from<BR>
within the department.  Instead he is a "civilian" charged with either<BR>
making<BR>
policy decisions or conducting "outside" investigations of the police<BR>
department.  He is more analagous to the U.S. Secretary of Defence, the<BR>
"civilian" boss of a para-military organization.  Commisioners will usually<BR>
only be found in the largest of cities, however.<BR>
                                            Lyle<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 22:03:27 -0500<BR>
From: Robert Prior <robert_prior@sympatico.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: Iridium-class Solar Yacht (GTL12)<BR>
<BR>
>> With all the talk about solar racing a while back, I decided to build solar<BR>
>> sails into the next version of GT: Shipyard. Here is the fastest ship I<BR>
>> could design, just the bridge/systems module and a light sail, held<BR>
>> together by a super-light hull.<BR>
><BR>
>What a really cool ship!<BR>
><BR>
>I really just wanted to test my new linux machine, but I thought I would pass<BR>
>out some praise while I was at it :)<BR>
><BR>
>I really do like it, though (the ship ... not the machine).<BR>
<BR>
Praise from a gearhead such as yourself is praise indeed. Thank you, sir.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 22:05:29 -0500<BR>
From: Robert Prior <robert_prior@sympatico.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: early christian writings and roman rumors<BR>
<BR>
>----- Original Message -----<BR>
>From: Robert Prior <robert_prior@sympatico.ca><BR>
>> May I recommend "The Unauthorized Version" by Robin Lane Fox?  A look at<BR>
>> the bible as history, by a good historian.<BR>
><BR>
>Or "Surspised By Joy", by C.S. Lewis, a Sci-Fi writer and infamous atheist.<BR>
<BR>
Atheist?  C.S.Lewis, the man who wrote "The Screwtape Letters"?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 22:27:15 -0500<BR>
From: Robert Prior <robert_prior@sympatico.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: Bifrost-class Solar Shuttle (GTL9)<BR>
<BR>
>In mail you write:<BR>
><BR>
>> I was fiddling around, trying to get decent acceleration for a GTL9 ship,<BR>
>> whne I realized that the GURPS Space light sails might work. Plugging the<BR>
>> numbers in (and assuming no silly mistakes on my part), I came up with a<BR>
>> relatively fast shuttle for short-haul trips.<BR>
><BR>
>> Bifrost-class Solar Shuttle (GTL9)<BR>
><BR>
><snip><BR>
><BR>
>> 10 USL, DR 100, Cockpit, 1 Light Sail, 4 Passenger Couches, 4.5 Cargo<BR>
>><BR>
>> Statistics: EMass 43.4 tonnes, LMass 63.8 tonnes, Cost: 28.5 MCr, HP:<BR>
>> 2,631, Size Mod: +6<BR>
>><BR>
>> Performance: Accel: 2.3 G (3.3 G empty, 1.0 G overloaded)<BR>
><BR>
>There's something *seriously* wrong here. Light sails, without laser<BR>
>boosts or the like *can't* do even *1* g. 1/10th or even 1/100th g is<BR>
>more like light sail performance. They are *not* high accel!<BR>
<BR>
>> 1 light sail (145.1 tonnes thrust)      0.5     22.7    25.0    -       -<BR>
><BR>
>And just how *big* is this sail? And what does *it* mass? I bet you<BR>
>forgot to add the mass of the sail to the mass of the ship before<BR>
>calculating acceleration.<BR>
<BR>
Then fire off a letter to SJG and get GURPS space errataed, because that's<BR>
where I pulled the numbers from. Just a simple thrust/mass=acceleration<BR>
calculation.<BR>
<BR>
I can see no reason why a light sail couldn't be a high-acceleration<BR>
vessel, assuming that the sail was big enough. GS/3 doesn't give sizes, but<BR>
I suppose you could do a backwards calculation from the thrust and average<BR>
solar energy in earth orbit.<BR>
<BR>
Looking at page 21 of "Starsailing" (by Freidman), I see that F=2P/c<BR>
(force, power, speed of light). Given that F=ma, then we can derive a=2P/mc<BR>
(acceleration, power, mass, speed of light)<BR>
<BR>
The mass of the yacht includes the mass of the sail (check the numbers).<BR>
Dividing tons thrust by tons mass should give me the acceleration in<BR>
gravities, right?  (I usually work in Newtons and kilograms, not American<BR>
units, so may well have made a mistake here.)<BR>
<BR>
In any case, we can calculate teh area of the sail because we know the<BR>
force. 145.1 tonnes thrust is 145100 kg times 10 m/s/s (approx), thus<BR>
1451000 N. Rearranging the first equation about to get P = Fc/2, I get P =<BR>
1,451,000 x 300,000,000 / 2 = 2.2 x 10e14. The Square root of that is about<BR>
10e7, so the sail is a square 10000km along a side.<BR>
<BR>
According to GS/3, the sail is 240 square miles per space. I see that I<BR>
forgot to multiply the thrust by 0.5 (for the half space) but GS/3 lists<BR>
the thrust as 160 tons/space.<BR>
<BR>
I think we've found an errata in GS/3.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 23:08:04 -0500<BR>
From: Robert Prior <robert_prior@sympatico.ca><BR>
Subject: Bifrost-class Solar Shuttle (GTL9) - corrected<BR>
<BR>
Here is the 'corrected' version of the Bifrost. I had the wrong thrust<BR>
before. Whether this thrust is possible using the GURPS size of sail is<BR>
another matter entirely...<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Bifrost-class Solar Shuttle (GTL9)<BR>
<BR>
Crew: 1 bridge crew, 1 steward<BR>
<BR>
Passengers: 48 high passengers<BR>
<BR>
10 OF, DR 100, Cockpit, 1 Light Sail, 4 Passenger Couches, 4.5 Cargo<BR>
<BR>
Statistics: EMass 43.4 tonnes, LMass 63.8 tonnes, Cost: 28.5 MCr, HP:<BR>
2,631, Size Mod: +6<BR>
<BR>
Performance: Accel: 1.1 G (1.7 G empty, 0.5 G overloaded)<BR>
<BR>
Structure	Spaces	Mass	Cost	Area	Crew<BR>
10-dton medium hull, standard materials	(10.0)	2.4	0.1	1,754	-<BR>
DR 100 durasteel armour	-	11.9	0.2	-	-<BR>
CCCI	Spaces	Mass	Cost	Area	Crew<BR>
Cockpit	1.0	4.4	2.5	-	1-2<BR>
Engineering	Spaces	Mass	Cost	Area	Crew<BR>
1 light sail (72.6 tonnes thrust)	0.5	22.7	25.0	-	-<BR>
Other Modules	Spaces	Mass	Cost	Area	Crew<BR>
4 passenger couches	4.0	2.0	0.3	-	1<BR>
4.5-dton cargo hold	4.5	-	-	-	-<BR>
Cargo	(4.5)	20.4	-	-	-<BR>
Totals	Spaces	Mass	Cost	Area	Crew<BR>
Empty	10.0	43.4	28.0	1,754	0<BR>
Fitted out	10.0	63.8	28.0	1,754	0<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Robert Prior, 1999.  (Designed with GT Shipyard.  Robert Prior, 1999.)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 23:09:41 -0500<BR>
From: Robert Prior <robert_prior@sympatico.ca><BR>
Subject: Goryo-class Medium Fighter (GTL9) - corrected<BR>
<BR>
Here is a 'corrected' version of the Goryo. Whether this is possible<BR>
without a larger sail than specified in GS/3 is debatable. This fits the<BR>
rules, but whether the rules fit reality...<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Goryo-class Medium Fighter (GTL9)<BR>
<BR>
Crew: 1 bridge crew, 1 gunner<BR>
<BR>
4 OF, DR 2000, 1 Single 303 MJ Laser Turret, Basic Stealth, Basic Emission<BR>
Cloaking, Hardened Cockpit, 3 Light Sails<BR>
<BR>
Weapon	Type	Acc	Damage	1/2D Rng	Max Rng	RoF<BR>
303 MJ Rainbow Laser	Imp	33	5d x 55	12,800 km	24,000 km<BR>
	1/60<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Statistics: EMass 221.8 tonnes, LMass 221.8 tonnes, Cost: 87.66 MCr, HP:<BR>
1,428, Size Mod: +5<BR>
<BR>
Performance: Accel: 1.0 G<BR>
<BR>
Structure	Spaces	Mass	Cost	Area	Crew<BR>
4-dton medium hull, standard materials	(4.0)	1.3	0.0	952	-<BR>
1 turret (DR 1000)	1.0	37.4	1.6	800	-<BR>
DR 2000 crystaliron armour	-	86.4	3.8	-	-<BR>
Basic stealth	-	0.4	0.1	-	-<BR>
Basic emission cloaking	-	0.4	0.1	-	-<BR>
CCCI	Spaces	Mass	Cost	Area	Crew<BR>
Cockpit with hardened controls	1.0	4.6	2.7	-	1-2<BR>
Engineering	Spaces	Mass	Cost	Area	Crew<BR>
3 light sails (217.7 tonnes thrust)	1.5	68.0	75.0	-	-<BR>
Weaponry	Spaces	Mass	Cost	Area	Crew<BR>
1 single 303 MJ heavy laser turret	(3.0)	23.3	4.3	-	1-1<BR>
Other Modules	Spaces	Mass	Cost	Area	Crew<BR>
Empty space	0.5	-	-	-	-<BR>
Totals	Spaces	Mass	Cost	Area	Crew<BR>
Empty	4.0	221.8	87.7	1,752	0<BR>
Fitted out	4.0	221.8	87.7	1,752	0<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Robert Prior, 1999.  (Designed with GT Shipyard.  Robert Prior, 1999.)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1417<BR>
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